The Grammar Logs -- Number Sixty-Three

The
Grammar
Logs
# 63

Question Help! A "friend" and I are at odds about the word profitable in this sentence: We invested in them to make them profitable. I say profitable is an adjective. She says adverb.
Thanks for your time.
Source & Date
of Question Carbondale, Pennsylvania
29 January 1998
Grammar's
Response To be an adverb, the word "profitable" would have to modifying a verb, an adjective, or another adverb, and I don't see that happening. I think it's an adjective modifying the second "them." However, you can both win. The infinitive phrase "to make them profitable" is adverbial (telling us why we invested), so the word is part of an adverbial construction.

Question I do not understand where I should put commas in certain sentences that start with such words as "when" and "because". I know all about the dependent/independent clause rules, but they really do not help me much when I get into problematic "sentence situations." Do you know of an easy way that would help me know where to put my commas and when not to? Thank you very much!!!! : )
Examples:

When she goes to the supermarket she often buys milk, eggs, and cheese.
Because he forgot his ticket he was not able to go to the concert.

Source & Date
of Question Gardner, Massachusetts
29 January 1998
Grammar's
Response If you can recognize a dependent clause that serves an adverbial function (i.e., it tells us where, when, why, under what conditions) and you find that dependent clause at the beginning of a sentence, put a comma after it. The sentences you give us, then, are not really problematic, are they? Put a comma after "supermarket" and "ticket." I think you're probably a lot closer to mastering this than you think!

Question Settle a bet for me, please. My boss likes to start a letter with "Dear So and so," followed by a colon. Then he follows the "Sincerely" with a comma. I say you have to use colons in both places (formal) or commas in both (informal).
So my question is, is the following example correct or incorrect:
Dear Grammar:
Thanks for your help.
Sincerely,
Nate

Source & Date
of Question Manassas, Virginia
29 January 1998
Grammar's
Response It's correct. I hope you didn't bet the farm (or your job) on this, but I have never seen a style manual that recommends anything other than the comma after the close. (And the colon after the salutation.) Sorry.
Authority: The Little, Brown Handbook by H. Ramsay Fowler and Jane E. Aaron, & Kay Limburg. 6th ed. HarperCollins: New York. 1995. By permission of Addison-Wesley Educational Publishers Inc.

Question When is it correct to use myself in a sentence. I always thought that it followed a ?? (not very good with grammatical phrases). For example by myself, to myself. More and more my staff are sending me reports where they use myself as a noun. For example: Sam and myself will be representing the company.
Is this acceptable or wrong? (Even if it is acceptable it sounds awful). How should this be phrased- I would have thought Sam and I will be representing the company.
Source & Date
of Question Toronto, Canada
29 January 1998
Grammar's
Response We use these intensive and reflexive forms say something like "I myself will do this job." or "He paid himself handsomely." Those people who use "myself" as the subject of a sentence must be fired, immediately. You're better off without them, believe me. The intensive and reflexive forms of the pronoun (using -self and -selves) are "used only to refer to or emphasize the nouns or pronouns they represent, not to take their place. Therefore, these pronouns should not be used as the subject or object of a sentence."
Thus saith the the New York Public Library Writer's Guide to Style and Usage HarperCollins: New York. 1994. 124. (Well, the quoted part, anyway.)

Question I'm trying to find information on the folllowing ; Verb Forms, Agreement of Elements,Apostrophies,and case. Do not even have a clue on the Case thing. Save me please. I have to take a test soon!
Source & Date
of Question Fall River, Massachusetts
29 January 1998
Grammar's
Response If you visit our "digital handouts," those chapters in the Guide to Grammar and Writing about Subject-Verb Agreement, Possessives, and Pronouns (for help on case), you might just find what you're looking for. (Be sure to take the appropriate quizzes because you can learn a lot from that, whether you get all the right answers or not.) But for advice other than that, I'd have to have a more specific question to work with.

Question Which one is correct?

I suggest that he study for the exam.
I suggest that he studies for the exam.
Thanks.
Source & Date
of Question Manila, Philippines
29 January 1998
Grammar's
Response You would write "suggest that he study" in that sentence, using the subjunctive mood because this is a kind of conditional statement -- like wishing, desiring, recommending. There's a brief section on the subjunctive in our handout on Verbs and Verbals.

Question Please give me a comparison with examples if possible of the difference between 'pluperfect' and 'preterite perfect'.
Source & Date
of Question Knoxville, Tennessee
29 January 1998
Grammar's
Response The pluperfect expresses a past action completed before another past action, as in Vorax summam imperi tenebat earum omnium civitatum quae defecerant ("Vorax held the chief command of all those states which had revolted"). The perfect expresses an action completed in the past, as Id feci ("I did it"), but there are preteritive perfects which are past in form but have a present tense meaning, e.g. Novi ("I have known" or "I know").
Authority: Professor Ronald E. Pepin, Capital Community College

Question
What's the meaning of 'littoral memory'
What's the meaning of the expression 'What's the beef'
This was not the case with a man from China.That was not the case with a man from China. What's the difference in meaning in these two sentences?
When you start imposing these values,it will first split the people. Can we use 'they' instead of 'it' in this sentence ?
Thank you for your explaination.
Source & Date
of Question Malaysia
30 January 1998
Grammar's
Response The answers, in order, are:

"Literal memory"? I don't know. I've never heard the expression before.
"What's the beef?" What is the complaint? What's wrong?
Virtually no difference.
You could use "they," and then it would clearly refer to "values." What the sentence probably means, though, is that the act of imposing values will split the people. You'd be better off re-organizing your sentence (start with the second clause) so you can avoid the ambiguous pronoun.

Question I know that the rule for comma use in dates dictates that in expressions such as March 1, 1994, there be two commas -- as I've just written it. I've recently come upon the use of a date in the adjectival function:
A copy of the March 1 1994 agreement is enclosed with this letter.
In this example, "March 1, 1994" functions as an adjective, modifying the noun "agreement." My question is: should one use the second comma, i.e. the one that normally comes after the year, in cases such as these?
In other words, which is the correct form:
A copy of the March 1, 1994 agreement is enclosed with this letter.
OR
A copy of the March 1, 1994, agreement in enclosed with this letter.
Thank you for any clarification you can give me.
Source & Date
of Question Toronto, Ontario, Canada
30 January 1998
Grammar's
Response According to all my resources, if you use the complete date that way, and in that order, the year is always treated parenthetically (commas both sides), and -- although your understanding of the difference between using the date as simply a date and using it as adjectivally is interesting to me -- I don't see any exceptions to the rule. If you leave out the date itself, oddly enough, you don't need a comma: "the March 1994 agreement."
Authority: Chicago Manual of Style 14th ed. U of Chicago P: Chicago. 1993.

Question When we wish to express someone's ability, what's the difference between "COULD" and "WAS/WERE ABLE TO"? I thought the latter was basically used to emphasize a fact (I was able to swim when I was only 4) whereas the former could always be used. Nevertheless, I have found some sentences that don't seem to follow this (but I am not sure they come from reliable sources).
PS. I have a couple of English grammars: "A Practical English Grammar" by Thomson & Martinet and the Collins-Cobuild English Grammar. Do you recommend another one? I don't mind if it is a bit expensive provided that it is good.
Source & Date
of Question Utiel, Valencia, Spain
30 January 1998
Grammar's
Response There's not enough difference between using can and being able to for it to bother us much. If there's a suggestion of being permitted to do something (as opposed to having the ability to do something), then we definitely want can, but otherwise, in terms of expressing ability, either will do. As a level of formality, I suppose "I am able to sing in the shower" is more formal (or stuffy, if you will) than "I can sing in the shower." In the former, there is slightly more emphasis on the abilities involved, but, as I said, there isn't much difference.
Without knowing where you are as an English learner, I would hesitate to recommend a text. There's a list of them on "Grammar's Bookshelf." I really like the New York Public Library's Guide (in spite of its weak index), but it might not be for you. Can you review it at a library? Also, you might go to a college and see if they have on sale any composition handbooks. I'm not familiar with the two you mention, but that's doesn't mean they aren't fine resources.

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Question	Help! A "friend" and I are at odds about the word profitable in this sentence: We invested in them to make them profitable. I say profitable is an adjective. She says adverb. Thanks for your time.
Source & Date of Question	Carbondale, Pennsylvania 29 January 1998
Grammar's Response	To be an adverb, the word "profitable" would have to modifying a verb, an adjective, or another adverb, and I don't see that happening. I think it's an adjective modifying the second "them." However, you can both win. The infinitive phrase "to make them profitable" is adverbial (telling us why we invested), so the word is part of an adverbial construction.

Question	I do not understand where I should put commas in certain sentences that start with such words as "when" and "because". I know all about the dependent/independent clause rules, but they really do not help me much when I get into problematic "sentence situations." Do you know of an easy way that would help me know where to put my commas and when not to? Thank you very much!!!! : ) Examples: When she goes to the supermarket she often buys milk, eggs, and cheese. Because he forgot his ticket he was not able to go to the concert.
Source & Date of Question	Gardner, Massachusetts 29 January 1998
Grammar's Response	If you can recognize a dependent clause that serves an adverbial function (i.e., it tells us where, when, why, under what conditions) and you find that dependent clause at the beginning of a sentence, put a comma after it. The sentences you give us, then, are not really problematic, are they? Put a comma after "supermarket" and "ticket." I think you're probably a lot closer to mastering this than you think!

Question	Settle a bet for me, please. My boss likes to start a letter with "Dear So and so," followed by a colon. Then he follows the "Sincerely" with a comma. I say you have to use colons in both places (formal) or commas in both (informal). So my question is, is the following example correct or incorrect: Dear Grammar: Thanks for your help. Sincerely, Nate
Source & Date of Question	Manassas, Virginia 29 January 1998
Grammar's Response	It's correct. I hope you didn't bet the farm (or your job) on this, but I have never seen a style manual that recommends anything other than the comma after the close. (And the colon after the salutation.) Sorry. Authority: The Little, Brown Handbook by H. Ramsay Fowler and Jane E. Aaron, & Kay Limburg. 6th ed. HarperCollins: New York. 1995. By permission of Addison-Wesley Educational Publishers Inc.

Question	When is it correct to use myself in a sentence. I always thought that it followed a ?? (not very good with grammatical phrases). For example by myself, to myself. More and more my staff are sending me reports where they use myself as a noun. For example: Sam and myself will be representing the company. Is this acceptable or wrong? (Even if it is acceptable it sounds awful). How should this be phrased- I would have thought Sam and I will be representing the company.
Source & Date of Question	Toronto, Canada 29 January 1998
Grammar's Response	We use these intensive and reflexive forms say something like "I myself will do this job." or "He paid himself handsomely." Those people who use "myself" as the subject of a sentence must be fired, immediately. You're better off without them, believe me. The intensive and reflexive forms of the pronoun (using -self and -selves) are "used only to refer to or emphasize the nouns or pronouns they represent, not to take their place. Therefore, these pronouns should not be used as the subject or object of a sentence." Thus saith the the New York Public Library Writer's Guide to Style and Usage HarperCollins: New York. 1994. 124. (Well, the quoted part, anyway.)

Question	Which one is correct? I suggest that he study for the exam. I suggest that he studies for the exam. Thanks.
Source & Date of Question	Manila, Philippines 29 January 1998
Grammar's Response	You would write "suggest that he study" in that sentence, using the subjunctive mood because this is a kind of conditional statement -- like wishing, desiring, recommending. There's a brief section on the subjunctive in our handout on Verbs and Verbals.

Question	I'm trying to find information on the folllowing ; Verb Forms, Agreement of Elements,Apostrophies,and case. Do not even have a clue on the Case thing. Save me please. I have to take a test soon!
Source & Date of Question	Fall River, Massachusetts 29 January 1998
Grammar's Response	If you visit our "digital handouts," those chapters in the Guide to Grammar and Writing about Subject-Verb Agreement, Possessives, and Pronouns (for help on case), you might just find what you're looking for. (Be sure to take the appropriate quizzes because you can learn a lot from that, whether you get all the right answers or not.) But for advice other than that, I'd have to have a more specific question to work with.

Question	Please give me a comparison with examples if possible of the difference between 'pluperfect' and 'preterite perfect'.
Source & Date of Question	Knoxville, Tennessee 29 January 1998
Grammar's Response	The pluperfect expresses a past action completed before another past action, as in Vorax summam imperi tenebat earum omnium civitatum quae defecerant ("Vorax held the chief command of all those states which had revolted"). The perfect expresses an action completed in the past, as Id feci ("I did it"), but there are preteritive perfects which are past in form but have a present tense meaning, e.g. Novi ("I have known" or "I know"). Authority: Professor Ronald E. Pepin, Capital Community College

Question	What's the meaning of 'littoral memory' What's the meaning of the expression 'What's the beef' This was not the case with a man from China.That was not the case with a man from China. What's the difference in meaning in these two sentences? When you start imposing these values,it will first split the people. Can we use 'they' instead of 'it' in this sentence ? Thank you for your explaination.
Source & Date of Question	Malaysia 30 January 1998
Grammar's Response	The answers, in order, are: "Literal memory"? I don't know. I've never heard the expression before. "What's the beef?" What is the complaint? What's wrong? Virtually no difference. You could use "they," and then it would clearly refer to "values." What the sentence probably means, though, is that the act of imposing values will split the people. You'd be better off re-organizing your sentence (start with the second clause) so you can avoid the ambiguous pronoun.

Question	I know that the rule for comma use in dates dictates that in expressions such as March 1, 1994, there be two commas -- as I've just written it. I've recently come upon the use of a date in the adjectival function: A copy of the March 1 1994 agreement is enclosed with this letter. In this example, "March 1, 1994" functions as an adjective, modifying the noun "agreement." My question is: should one use the second comma, i.e. the one that normally comes after the year, in cases such as these? In other words, which is the correct form: A copy of the March 1, 1994 agreement is enclosed with this letter. OR A copy of the March 1, 1994, agreement in enclosed with this letter. Thank you for any clarification you can give me.
Source & Date of Question	Toronto, Ontario, Canada 30 January 1998
Grammar's Response	According to all my resources, if you use the complete date that way, and in that order, the year is always treated parenthetically (commas both sides), and -- although your understanding of the difference between using the date as simply a date and using it as adjectivally is interesting to me -- I don't see any exceptions to the rule. If you leave out the date itself, oddly enough, you don't need a comma: "the March 1994 agreement." Authority: Chicago Manual of Style 14th ed. U of Chicago P: Chicago. 1993.

Question	When we wish to express someone's ability, what's the difference between "COULD" and "WAS/WERE ABLE TO"? I thought the latter was basically used to emphasize a fact (I was able to swim when I was only 4) whereas the former could always be used. Nevertheless, I have found some sentences that don't seem to follow this (but I am not sure they come from reliable sources). PS. I have a couple of English grammars: "A Practical English Grammar" by Thomson & Martinet and the Collins-Cobuild English Grammar. Do you recommend another one? I don't mind if it is a bit expensive provided that it is good.
Source & Date of Question	Utiel, Valencia, Spain 30 January 1998
Grammar's Response	There's not enough difference between using can and being able to for it to bother us much. If there's a suggestion of being permitted to do something (as opposed to having the ability to do something), then we definitely want can, but otherwise, in terms of expressing ability, either will do. As a level of formality, I suppose "I am able to sing in the shower" is more formal (or stuffy, if you will) than "I can sing in the shower." In the former, there is slightly more emphasis on the abilities involved, but, as I said, there isn't much difference. Without knowing where you are as an English learner, I would hesitate to recommend a text. There's a list of them on "Grammar's Bookshelf." I really like the New York Public Library's Guide (in spite of its weak index), but it might not be for you. Can you review it at a library? Also, you might go to a college and see if they have on sale any composition handbooks. I'm not familiar with the two you mention, but that's doesn't mean they aren't fine resources.