The
Grammar
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# 266

QUESTION
Is there a rule respecting which of "and" or "or" should be used in relation to phrases containing the comparative (or the superlative) such as "the lesser of" ?
  • "...the lesser of $50.00 AND the amount shown on the meter"
  • "...the lesser of $50.00 OR the amount shown on the meter"
Which is correct? Or will context and structure always determine the issue. For example, it seems incorrect to say "the taller of Sue or Jane", yet it does not seem incorrect to say "who was the greater of the wartime statesmen: Churchill or Truman?" (in this last "and" would seem decidedly wrong).
SOURCE OF QUESTION & DATE OF RESPONSE
Saskatchewan, Canada Wed, Dec 9, 1998
GRAMMAR'S RESPONSE
The structure of your statement will determine your choice (as you point out). The first example you give us calls for the the comparison of this and that (not this or that, which is not logical). On the other hand, the Churchill sentence adds or tacks on the two choices (and compounds them with and), but the choice of the "greater" is contained within the prefatory phrase, "greater of the war-time statesmen." I agree with your analysis.

QUESTION
Should I use "fresher" or "more fresh" for comparison?

Thanks.

SOURCE OF QUESTION & DATE OF RESPONSE
Unknown Wed, Dec 9, 1998
GRAMMAR'S RESPONSE
Most single-syllable words form the comparative and superlative by adding -er or -est to the root of the adjective. I would say that this milk is fresher than that milk. However, it is certainly not unacceptable to say that "These roses are more fresh than the roses I bought here last week." Still, simpler is better.

QUESTION
Can you have an indirect object if there is no direct object?
The ball was thrown by me.
Is "by me" an indirect object?
SOURCE OF QUESTION & DATE OF RESPONSE
Edmonton, Alberta, Canada Wed, Dec 9, 1998
GRAMMAR'S RESPONSE
No, that's a prepositional phrase that modifies the verb. That's a passive construction in which the subject, "the ball," is also the object of the sentence. In "He threw me the ball," me would be the indirect recipient of the action, ball the direct object.

Frankly, I've never thought of your question before, and I don't think you can have an indirect object without a direct object or at least an implied direct object. [E-Mail Icon]However, I'll leave an e-mail icon here in case someone else has a better idea.


QUESTION
What is the proper way to use the preposition "out"?

Should one say, for example, "get out the house" or "get out of the house"?

The second one clearly SOUNDS more appealing, but I remember learning that the "of" should be omitted.

Thank you

SOURCE OF QUESTION & DATE OF RESPONSE
Newark, New Jersey Wed, Dec 9, 1998
GRAMMAR'S RESPONSE
It's interesting that we're taught not to say "He feel off of the chair." or "The bird flew out of the window." But "Get out of the house!" is clearly correct. See the online Webster's Dictionary for help with this function word. (Look up "out of," not "out.")

Authority for this note: WWWebster Dictionary, the World Wide Web edition of Merriam-Webster's Collegiate® Dictionary, Tenth Edition. Used with permission.


QUESTION
'Like' and 'as' can be confusing words, because they have so many different meanings. I am supposed to give an explanation in class about this, we are supposed to find information by means of dictionaries and internet. I really hope you are able to help me.

Especially in the sentences:

  • Like I said, I am going to the party.
  • As I said, I am going to the party.
I am looking forward to hearing from you soon.
SOURCE OF QUESTION & DATE OF RESPONSE
Leeuwarden, Friesland, The Netherlands Wed, Dec 9, 1998
GRAMMAR'S RESPONSE
Generally, we want to use "as" to introduce a clause. In the sentences you give us, we want to use "as" to introduce the dependent clause "As I said." We use "like" to make certain kinds of comparisons. "He is like my father." But we also use "as" for comparisons: "He is as tall as my father." but that's because there's an understood clause at the end of that sentence, "He is as tall as my father [is tall]." I hope this answer doesn't confuse you more than you were before.

QUESTION
Dear Grammar,
Please advise me of the use of articles before Arabic numbers.
  1. He gave me (a, an) 1-year-old dog as present.
  2. He gave me (a, an) 2-year-old dog as present.
Thanks in advance.
SOURCE OF QUESTION & DATE OF RESPONSE
Hong Kong Thu, Dec 10, 1998
GRAMMAR'S RESPONSE
The same rule applies to articles before numbers as applies to articles before any other word. We want "a" before "two-year-old" because it begins with the consonantal "t." We want "a" before "one-year-old" because the word one begins with a vowel, but it's a consonantal sound (sort of like "won"). (We would say "a one-time event," but "an only child." I hope you hear the difference in the o's that begin "one" and "only.") Incidentally, most writers would write out the number in one-year-old, etc.

QUESTION
What is the difference in usage between the words "communication" and "communications?" For example, I am proofreading a paper on computer networks, which involve 'communication protocols,' 'reliable communication,' and several other such expressions. Just from the sound of it, I think some of these should really be plural, but I can't seem to find the rule.
SOURCE OF QUESTION & DATE OF RESPONSE
Pasadena, California Thu, Dec 10, 1998
GRAMMAR'S RESPONSE
I don't know if there's a rule about this, but communication is the act of transmitting verbal or written messages and communications is the system or technique or technology in which such transmitting happens. Communications is also the study of such systems. "Communication protocols" looks OK to me, but "reliable communication/s" could probably go either way.

Authority for this note: WWWebster Dictionary, the World Wide Web edition of Merriam-Webster's Collegiate® Dictionary, Tenth Edition. Used with permission.


QUESTION
I am confused about where to place the ' to indicate possession in the following sentence part,
"...those with mental illnesses's use of mental health services...."
To clarify the meaning, there is more than one person with more than one mental illness using more than one mental health service, if that helps!

Is 'those with mental illnesses' treated as singular or plural? If it is singular, is it okay to put an 's on the end of the plural word illnesses?

Many thanks for your help!

SOURCE OF QUESTION & DATE OF RESPONSE
Victoria, British Columbia, Canada Thu, Dec 10, 1998
GRAMMAR'S RESPONSE
Trying to form the possessive of that construction by using an apostrophe -s is going to lead to a mess. Use the "of" construction instead: "The use of mental health services by those [citizens?] with mental illnesses." It will require some sentence re-ordering, but the alternative is unreadable.

QUESTION
I have been criticized for using more than one complete thought within bulleted items in an educational slide presentation. However, I can find no expert reference anywhere to this being unacceptable. Following is an example of my work followed by the criticism I received.
  • COMMUNICATE: Take the time to talk about each person's needs and wants.
  • COOPERATE: Be prepared to compromise and work cooperatively. Seek a financial partnership.
  • CONTROL: Exercise control and avoid unnecessary spending. Encourage each other.
The criticism: First, I was instructed to delete the period at the end of the first bulleted item. On the second bulleted item, I was instructed to delete its second sentence entirely as well as the period at the end of the first sentence. The same goes for the third bulleted item.

The person who gave me this critique instructed me not to use periods at the end of any bulleted items. However, I found that paragraph 107 of the "Gregg Reference Manual," Sixth Edition offered alternative and, in some cases, conflicting advice. My copy of the Sixth Edition of the "Gregg Reference Manual" was published in 1985 and has no reference to this specific question that I could find.

I would be extremely grateful if you would provide me with your expert opinion regarding the accuracy of this criticism. Please understand that I do not have a problem with this ciriticism if it is valid, but her criticism leads me to believe that I should never again present more than one complete sentence within a bulleted item. I find this hard to believe. I thank you in advance for your response to my question.

SOURCE OF QUESTION & DATE OF RESPONSE
Baton Rouge, Louisiana Thu, Dec 10, 1998
GRAMMAR'S RESPONSE
You'll find as many formats for such vertical lists as there are reference manuals. The New York Public Library's Guide suggests using a dash at the end of the prefatory line and using no punctuation at the end of each element in the list. In terms of the visual impact of the presentation, your critic probably has a point. Consistency is the main thing. For instance, what does "Encourage each other." have to do with "CONTROL"? You're probably better off with five shorter items, each with its own first word. Either that, or be a bit more consistent with having more than one sentence in each item -- but those sentences must obviously fit each "header." And the appearance is important. The initial plan here was a good one: first word in all caps, one brief sentence following.

QUESTION
Is the second word in a hyphenated title capitalized?
For example, would it be "Co-Director" or "Co-director"?
I have seen it both ways and think it should be capitalized but want to make sure that is correct.
SOURCE OF QUESTION & DATE OF RESPONSE
Philadelphia, Pennsylvania Thu, Dec 10, 1998
GRAMMAR'S RESPONSE
I can't find much in my reference books about this. The APA Publication Manual says "when a capitalized word is a hyphenated compound, both words," but it doesn't give us much in the way of examples, and I'm not sure they have a prefix like "co-" in mind. The Chicago Style Manual and the online Webster's seem to eliminate the hyphen altogether, even in a word [E-Mail Icon]such as coeditor or coinvestigator -- which seems troublesome to me. Go with the APA. I'll leave an e-mail icon here in case someone has a better idea.

Authority: Publication Manual of the American Psychological Assocation American Psychological Association. 4th ed. American Psychological Association: New York. 1994. p. 75.


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