The Grammar Logs -- Number Sixty-Nine

The
Grammar
Logs
# 69

Question What is the rule for adjectives which stack up? Ex. Why would one say "A nice big cardboard box" as opposed to "A big cardboard nice box" or "An old red suit" as opposed to " A red old suit".
The english verb "to lightning", any information on this verb in the present and past participles.
Also, is there a specific reason the population tends to refers to nouns such as cars and ships in the female gender? (Ex. Do we borrow this from some other language?)
Source & Date
of Question Gainesville, Florida
13 February 1998
Grammar's
Response The mental processes of premodification are so complex that I would urge you to look it up in a book. Most composition texts won't even touch it except to point out where you'd put commas. Quirk's book is excellent -- see below. Even after you understand the sequences of premodification (generally, the order is as follows: the determiners -- such as a, and, the, some, etc. -- come before general modifiers, which come before age, which come before color, which come before participles, which come before attributive nouns, which come before denominals, which come before -- at last -- the noun), why do we absolutely have to say "red, white, and blue" and not "blue, red, and white." Even in objective classes of modifiers, we would usually precede shape with size and girth with height -- big fat guy and tall fat guy. Don't ask why.
Authority: A University Grammar of English by Randolph Quirk and Sidney Greenbaum. Longman Group: Essex, England. 1993.
Some (but not all) dictionaries will list lightning as an intransitive verb: It lightninged outside; it is lightning outside. Thus says the online Merriam-Webster's dictionary. But the Oxford American doesn't list it as a verb at all -- probably because it leads to people saying that it's lightninging outside.
Using female pronouns for ships and cars? I always thought it was a "guy thing." It would be nice to attribute this to our Latin ancestors, but I'm afraid it has more to do with issues of ownership. I'll get back to this if I find evidence to the contrary.

Question Let me first thank you for providing this wonderful resource.
Please tell me which of the following is correct:

He is my first-grade math teacher.
He was my first-grade math teacher.
The teaching was done in the past but the statement is still true today. Similarly, is the statement "George Bush is the forty-first President of the United States" correct, even though his term has ended?
Source & Date
of Question Hong Kong
13 February 1998
Grammar's
Response Your example with George Bush is persuasive, but the first-grade sentence leaves me wondering. Since the experience of her being your first-grade teacher is in the past, I don't see how you can use the present tense in that sentence. George Bush, on the other hand, remains the forty-first president (and he always will be). I think you might introduce your former teacher to someone by saying, "This is my first-grade teacher, Mrs. Jones." because that is still true. But then wouldn't you say, "This is Mrs. Jones. She was my first-grade teacher."?

Question Is a comma needed before "if" in the following examples?

". . . use a spray, if you have a cold."
". . . you will have extra time, if you need to react suddenly."
". . . hours, and, if someone is away from the desk, leave a message>"
" . . . are curable, if treated early."
From your message, I gather one is needed, but I would appreciate your comments. Thanks so very much. What a lovely service!
Source & Date
of Question Oceanside, New York
12 February 1998
Grammar's
Response When an adverbial clause (and "if clauses" tell under what condition something is true or is happening, so it modifies the verb and is adverbial) comes at the beginning of a sentence, it would always require a comma to set it off from the rest of the sentece. However, when it comes later on in the sentence, you will have to decide whether the information in that clause is essential to the meaning of the sentence or not, and that can be one of the toughest decisions in punctuation. I would say that of your four sentences, only the third has a clause that is not essential -- which means that you do need the commas. Otherwise, your sentence-samples will go commaless (although that's a bit hard to tell when we don't have the whole sentence).

Question Please help me out. Which statement is correct: "My salary requirements is $X or my salary requirements are $X." I get a different opinion every time I ask, even from people who do professional writing for living.
Thanks
Source & Date
of Question Denver, Colorado
12 February 1998
Grammar's
Response My opinion (and that's certainly all it is, in this case) is that that is a peculiar phrase, "salary requirement." I don't know what it means in the singular, much less in the plural. You require a salary of $XX,000 or A salary of $XX,000 would meet your requirements. If you're going to use the phrase at all, I'd use the singular requirement along with the singular verb. It feels like one requirement to me.

Question Why do we use the singulars foot and year as in a twenty-foot boat or twelve year old girl when twenty and twelve are actually plural?
Thanks for your help!
Source & Date
of Question Elmsford, New York
12 February 1998
Grammar's
Response I don't think I've ever seen an explanation for it, but it is true that plural nouns commonly lose their inflection (their plural form) when they premodify something: trouser legs, scissor blades, binocular lens. And this is especially true of plural measure expressions, which are normally singularized when they premodify, as you point out. Actually, we _can_ say "he is six feet tall," but it is quite common and correct to say, "He is six foot tall," and there are dozens of other examples: "fifteen-inch monitor, twelve-yard run," etc.
Authority: A University Grammar of English by Randolph Quirk and Sidney Greenbaum. Longman Group: Essex, England. 1993.

Question I'd like to know the difference of: how much and how many and possibly have many examples to practice.
Source & Date
of Question Monterrey, Nuevo LeÛn; MÈxico
14 February 1998
Grammar's
Response Sorry, I can't give you a lot of examples, but I can tell you to use "How much" when you dealing with uncountable nouns and "How many" when dealing with countable nouns. How much sugar do you put in your coffee? How many teaspoonfuls of sugar do you put in your coffee? How much money do we need? How many people do we have to help?

Question Would you please tell me if the prepositions used in the following sentences are correct?

I provide secretarial support for Mr. Pang.
Thank you for your interest in our product.
Thank you for your interest of ABC company.

Source & Date
of Question Hong Kong
14 February 1998
Grammar's
Response You would thank people for their interest in something, but you could provide secretarial support for or to Mr. Pang.

Question Which is correct?

He used to study in the library until it closes.
He used to study in the library until it closed.
Note that the time at which the library closes is treated here as a FACT and is INVARIANT, as in "the sun RISES in the east"; its truth is regardless of the tense context of the person who used to study in the library.
Thus, I favour Statement 1 based on the above argument. However, I was told that only Statement 2 is acceptable.
Source & Date
of Question Singapore
14 February 1998
Grammar's
Response The New York Public Library's Writer's Guide to Style and Usage puts it this way: "Because using present tense sounds odd to the ear in some sentences, an exception to the above rule [about stating general truths in the present] is made for certain statements that show habitual action -- that is, actions that describe facts of fixed events. In such cases, both clauses are in the past tense." I think your sentence is like that. I wouldn't say that the present tense is wrong, because it is (as you point out) an invariant truth, but I think the past tense would certainly be acceptable and even preferable.
Authority: New York Public Library Writer's Guide to Style and Usage HarperCollins: New York. 1994.

Question What is the difference between "say" and "tell", and when do you use each?
Source & Date
of Question Lima Peru
14 February 1998
Grammar's
Response Sometimes these words are interchangeable: "It's hard to tell who's taller. It's hard to say who's taller." In reporting speech, we usually use "say": "She said, he said," etc. The verb "to say" is often accompanied by the preposition "to": "She said to her brother" whereas "to tell" is not": "She told her brother." Although you would use "to" if you had an object in the sentence, as in "She told the story to her brother." So you would say "Tell me something," but you would say "Say something to me."
I have this awful feeling that I'm just making this worse for you.

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Question	What is the rule for adjectives which stack up? Ex. Why would one say "A nice big cardboard box" as opposed to "A big cardboard nice box" or "An old red suit" as opposed to " A red old suit". The english verb "to lightning", any information on this verb in the present and past participles. Also, is there a specific reason the population tends to refers to nouns such as cars and ships in the female gender? (Ex. Do we borrow this from some other language?)
Source & Date of Question	Gainesville, Florida 13 February 1998
Grammar's Response	The mental processes of premodification are so complex that I would urge you to look it up in a book. Most composition texts won't even touch it except to point out where you'd put commas. Quirk's book is excellent -- see below. Even after you understand the sequences of premodification (generally, the order is as follows: the determiners -- such as a, and, the, some, etc. -- come before general modifiers, which come before age, which come before color, which come before participles, which come before attributive nouns, which come before denominals, which come before -- at last -- the noun), why do we absolutely have to say "red, white, and blue" and not "blue, red, and white." Even in objective classes of modifiers, we would usually precede shape with size and girth with height -- big fat guy and tall fat guy. Don't ask why. Authority: A University Grammar of English by Randolph Quirk and Sidney Greenbaum. Longman Group: Essex, England. 1993. Some (but not all) dictionaries will list lightning as an intransitive verb: It lightninged outside; it is lightning outside. Thus says the online Merriam-Webster's dictionary. But the Oxford American doesn't list it as a verb at all -- probably because it leads to people saying that it's lightninging outside. Using female pronouns for ships and cars? I always thought it was a "guy thing." It would be nice to attribute this to our Latin ancestors, but I'm afraid it has more to do with issues of ownership. I'll get back to this if I find evidence to the contrary.

Question	Let me first thank you for providing this wonderful resource. Please tell me which of the following is correct: He is my first-grade math teacher. He was my first-grade math teacher. The teaching was done in the past but the statement is still true today. Similarly, is the statement "George Bush is the forty-first President of the United States" correct, even though his term has ended?
Source & Date of Question	Hong Kong 13 February 1998
Grammar's Response	Your example with George Bush is persuasive, but the first-grade sentence leaves me wondering. Since the experience of her being your first-grade teacher is in the past, I don't see how you can use the present tense in that sentence. George Bush, on the other hand, remains the forty-first president (and he always will be). I think you might introduce your former teacher to someone by saying, "This is my first-grade teacher, Mrs. Jones." because that is still true. But then wouldn't you say, "This is Mrs. Jones. She was my first-grade teacher."?

Question	Is a comma needed before "if" in the following examples? ". . . use a spray, if you have a cold." ". . . you will have extra time, if you need to react suddenly." ". . . hours, and, if someone is away from the desk, leave a message>" " . . . are curable, if treated early." From your message, I gather one is needed, but I would appreciate your comments. Thanks so very much. What a lovely service!
Source & Date of Question	Oceanside, New York 12 February 1998
Grammar's Response	When an adverbial clause (and "if clauses" tell under what condition something is true or is happening, so it modifies the verb and is adverbial) comes at the beginning of a sentence, it would always require a comma to set it off from the rest of the sentece. However, when it comes later on in the sentence, you will have to decide whether the information in that clause is essential to the meaning of the sentence or not, and that can be one of the toughest decisions in punctuation. I would say that of your four sentences, only the third has a clause that is not essential -- which means that you do need the commas. Otherwise, your sentence-samples will go commaless (although that's a bit hard to tell when we don't have the whole sentence).

Question	Please help me out. Which statement is correct: "My salary requirements is $X or my salary requirements are $X." I get a different opinion every time I ask, even from people who do professional writing for living. Thanks
Source & Date of Question	Denver, Colorado 12 February 1998
Grammar's Response	My opinion (and that's certainly all it is, in this case) is that that is a peculiar phrase, "salary requirement." I don't know what it means in the singular, much less in the plural. You require a salary of $XX,000 or A salary of $XX,000 would meet your requirements. If you're going to use the phrase at all, I'd use the singular requirement along with the singular verb. It feels like one requirement to me.

Question	Why do we use the singulars foot and year as in a twenty-foot boat or twelve year old girl when twenty and twelve are actually plural? Thanks for your help!
Source & Date of Question	Elmsford, New York 12 February 1998
Grammar's Response	I don't think I've ever seen an explanation for it, but it is true that plural nouns commonly lose their inflection (their plural form) when they premodify something: trouser legs, scissor blades, binocular lens. And this is especially true of plural measure expressions, which are normally singularized when they premodify, as you point out. Actually, we _can_ say "he is six feet tall," but it is quite common and correct to say, "He is six foot tall," and there are dozens of other examples: "fifteen-inch monitor, twelve-yard run," etc. Authority: A University Grammar of English by Randolph Quirk and Sidney Greenbaum. Longman Group: Essex, England. 1993.

Question	I'd like to know the difference of: how much and how many and possibly have many examples to practice.
Source & Date of Question	Monterrey, Nuevo LeÛn; MÈxico 14 February 1998
Grammar's Response	Sorry, I can't give you a lot of examples, but I can tell you to use "How much" when you dealing with uncountable nouns and "How many" when dealing with countable nouns. How much sugar do you put in your coffee? How many teaspoonfuls of sugar do you put in your coffee? How much money do we need? How many people do we have to help?

Question	Would you please tell me if the prepositions used in the following sentences are correct? I provide secretarial support for Mr. Pang. Thank you for your interest in our product. Thank you for your interest of ABC company.
Source & Date of Question	Hong Kong 14 February 1998
Grammar's Response	You would thank people for their interest in something, but you could provide secretarial support for or to Mr. Pang.

Question	Which is correct? He used to study in the library until it closes. He used to study in the library until it closed. Note that the time at which the library closes is treated here as a FACT and is INVARIANT, as in "the sun RISES in the east"; its truth is regardless of the tense context of the person who used to study in the library. Thus, I favour Statement 1 based on the above argument. However, I was told that only Statement 2 is acceptable.
Source & Date of Question	Singapore 14 February 1998
Grammar's Response	The New York Public Library's Writer's Guide to Style and Usage puts it this way: "Because using present tense sounds odd to the ear in some sentences, an exception to the above rule [about stating general truths in the present] is made for certain statements that show habitual action -- that is, actions that describe facts of fixed events. In such cases, both clauses are in the past tense." I think your sentence is like that. I wouldn't say that the present tense is wrong, because it is (as you point out) an invariant truth, but I think the past tense would certainly be acceptable and even preferable. Authority: New York Public Library Writer's Guide to Style and Usage HarperCollins: New York. 1994.

Question	What is the difference between "say" and "tell", and when do you use each?
Source & Date of Question	Lima Peru 14 February 1998
Grammar's Response	Sometimes these words are interchangeable: "It's hard to tell who's taller. It's hard to say who's taller." In reporting speech, we usually use "say": "She said, he said," etc. The verb "to say" is often accompanied by the preposition "to": "She said to her brother" whereas "to tell" is not": "She told her brother." Although you would use "to" if you had an object in the sentence, as in "She told the story to her brother." So you would say "Tell me something," but you would say "Say something to me." I have this awful feeling that I'm just making this worse for you.