The Grammar Logs -- Number Sixty

The
Grammar
Logs
# 60

Question Re Indentation of first sentence in each paragraph in business letters. Five spaces or none required? I recognize that the format, once chosen, should be the same throughout the letter.
This is a bone of contention in my office. In my experience, both are acceptable. What is your view?
Source & Date
of Question San Diego, California
20 January 1998
Grammar's
Response Congratulations! You have written the 600th Question for ASK GRAMMAR. Your prize is any piece of art you choose from the Louvre Museum in Paris. Just show up with a big paper bag the next time you're in the City of Lights and tell them you've come for your prize.
The reference books I consulted for this question tell me that for business letters we should use either the standard block format (no indenting at all) or modified block format, which means that we can center the heading and closing but nothing else is indented. If that format is loosening, I don't see any evidence of it in the manuals. Frankly, with modern word processing and good laser printers, I don't see any problem with devising your own format, but I suppose you need to please the setters of conventions -- your bosses. Any deviation from the norm probably needs to be consistent within an entire office and corporation.

Authority: The Longman Handbook for Writers and Readers by Chris M. Anson and Robert A. Schwegler. Addison Wesley Longman, Inc.: New York. 1997.

Question In the song 'A horse with no name' by America there's a rather odd sentence:
In the desert you can remember your name
'Cause there ain't no one for to give you no name.
Could you rewrite the second line in standard English, please? Thank you and keep up the good work.
Source & Date
of Question Palma Campania (NA), Italy
21 January 1998
Grammar's
Response Actually, the chorus of America's song (which you can find at http://missionimprobable.com/america/song005.htm ) goes as follows:
I've been through the desert on a horse with no name
It felt good to be out of the rain
In the desert you can remember your name
'Cause there ain't no one for to give you no pain
I take the last two lines (triple negatives and all) to mean that this desert is a place where you can see clearly what you are all about because there is no one there to bother you. It's probably wise not to get too flustered by the grammar (or lack of it) in popular song lyrics. After all, Bob Dylan nearly won a Nobel Peace Prize and I haven't understood a word he's said since 1968.

Question What is proper comma and period punctuation regarding single quotation marks? For example: Which of the following is correct?

"John said, 'Amy won.'," said Zach.
or "John said 'Amy won,'" said Zach.
or "John said 'Amy won'," said Zach.
or...you get the picture.

Source & Date
of Question Bend, Oregon
21 January 1998
Grammar's
Response
Although it doesn't make a bit of sense, in standard U.S. practice the period or the comma will go inside all those quotation marks, both single and double. Incidentally, since Zach is reporting actual speech by John, you'll also need a comma to set off the quoted language of John:
"John said, 'Amy won,'" said Zach.
In British practice, you would write it in a more logical fashion, and you would also reverse the uses of single and double marks:
'John said, "Amy won",' said Zach.

Authority: Chicago Manual of Style 14th ed. U of Chicago P: Chicago. 1993.

Question Hi.
What is the difference about meaning between these sentences? Why does the sentence need to add "do" ?

I do have the local copy.
I have the local copy.

Source & Date
of Question Hong Kong
21 January 1998
Grammar's
Response That's called an emphatic sentence, and if you put the stress on the word do you can hear how the emphasis shifts. The first sentence is simply more emphatic about the fact that I have the copy. (Either sentence is correct, of course, but the first sentence is more emphatic.) In such an "emphatic transformation" of a sentence, we must have an auxiliary, and when there is no auxiliary of the verbs to be or to have, we use what's called the "stand-in auxiliary," do. I'm sorry if that sounds awfully technical, but that's how it works.
Authority: A University Grammar of English by Randolph Quirk and Sidney Greenbaum. Longman Group: Essex, England. 1993.

Question Is there a difference between "if only + clause" and "only if + clause"?

I will go if only you go, too.
I will go only if you go, too.

Source & Date
of Question Suita, Osaka, Japan
23 January 1998
Grammar's
Response Yes, the placement of the modifier "only" can be critical. In your first sentence, the "only" can modify the "you" of the sentence, meaning that I will go under the condition that you are the only other person to go. In the second sentence, the "only" will clearly modify the "go," meaning that I will go only under the conditions that you you will also go (and it doesn't say anything about other people going.) I can't say that this difference will always hold, but it certainly does in these two sentences.

Question I would like to know the name of the symbol which indicates a new paragraph is needed. It is most often shown as a sort of backwards "P", but I believe there is a name for it other than "the paragraph symbol."
Thank you.
Source & Date
of Question Bloomington, Indiana
23 January 1998
Grammar's
Response All the reference books on my shelf identify this thing as the paragraph symbol. They don't give it a neat name like virgule, or pi, or even Chuck. I've looked in both grammar books and proofreader's manuals and can't come up with another name for you. I'll keep looking and asking, and if I come up with something, you'll be the first to know. Why don't you come up with your own name for it?

Question Tell me what pronoun,noun,adverb,adjective are?
Source & Date
of Question Wells, Minnesota
23 January 1998
Grammar's
Response Take a look at our page of definitions, and see if that helps. If not, maybe you could get back to me with a more specific question?

Question Please diagram the Carl Lewis 239-word sentence.
Source & Date
of Question Denver, Colorado
23 January 1998
Grammar's
Response [For those of you unfamilar with the Carl Lewis 239-word sentence, click HERE.] I think I'll wait until I'm ready to retire before I tackle that! If you give it a shot and mail it to me, I'll put it up on the WWW and give you credit for it!

Question I was just told that when writing a business letter "To Whom It May Concern" is an outdated salutation. Is this correct?
Source & Date
of Question Salt Lake City, Utah
23 January 1998
Grammar's
Response Most of my references seem to steer people toward using an actual name if that is at all possible, and, if not, toward using something like "Dear Accounts Manager" or "Dear Search Committee," although the New York Public Library's guide recommends using "To ___" instead of "Dear."

Authority: The St. Martin's Handbook by Andrea Lunsford, Robert Connors. 2nd ed. St. Martin's Press: New York. 1992.
Authority: New York Public Library Writer's Guide to Style and Usage HarperCollins: New York. 1994.

Question Is it quiet or more quiet(quietest or most quiet)?
Thank you once again.
P.S. Happy New Year!!!
Source & Date
of Question Unknown
23 January 1998
Grammar's
Response We create the comparative and superlative forms of most two- (or more) syllable words by preceding them with more or most. With many two-syllable words, however, we can also form the comparative and superlative by adding -er or -est. With "quiet," you can go either way. "Of these two cars, this is the more quiet/quieter."

Previous Grammar Log
Next Grammar Log
Index of Grammar Logs
Guide to Grammar and Writing

Question	Re Indentation of first sentence in each paragraph in business letters. Five spaces or none required? I recognize that the format, once chosen, should be the same throughout the letter. This is a bone of contention in my office. In my experience, both are acceptable. What is your view?
Source & Date of Question	San Diego, California 20 January 1998
Grammar's Response	Congratulations! You have written the 600th Question for ASK GRAMMAR. Your prize is any piece of art you choose from the Louvre Museum in Paris. Just show up with a big paper bag the next time you're in the City of Lights and tell them you've come for your prize. The reference books I consulted for this question tell me that for business letters we should use either the standard block format (no indenting at all) or modified block format, which means that we can center the heading and closing but nothing else is indented. If that format is loosening, I don't see any evidence of it in the manuals. Frankly, with modern word processing and good laser printers, I don't see any problem with devising your own format, but I suppose you need to please the setters of conventions -- your bosses. Any deviation from the norm probably needs to be consistent within an entire office and corporation. Authority: The Longman Handbook for Writers and Readers by Chris M. Anson and Robert A. Schwegler. Addison Wesley Longman, Inc.: New York. 1997.

Question	In the song 'A horse with no name' by America there's a rather odd sentence: In the desert you can remember your name 'Cause there ain't no one for to give you no name. Could you rewrite the second line in standard English, please? Thank you and keep up the good work.
Source & Date of Question	Palma Campania (NA), Italy 21 January 1998
Grammar's Response	Actually, the chorus of America's song (which you can find at http://missionimprobable.com/america/song005.htm ) goes as follows: I've been through the desert on a horse with no name It felt good to be out of the rain In the desert you can remember your name 'Cause there ain't no one for to give you no pain I take the last two lines (triple negatives and all) to mean that this desert is a place where you can see clearly what you are all about because there is no one there to bother you. It's probably wise not to get too flustered by the grammar (or lack of it) in popular song lyrics. After all, Bob Dylan nearly won a Nobel Peace Prize and I haven't understood a word he's said since 1968.

Question	What is proper comma and period punctuation regarding single quotation marks? For example: Which of the following is correct? "John said, 'Amy won.'," said Zach. or "John said 'Amy won,'" said Zach. or "John said 'Amy won'," said Zach. or...you get the picture.
Source & Date of Question	Bend, Oregon 21 January 1998
Grammar's Response	Although it doesn't make a bit of sense, in standard U.S. practice the period or the comma will go inside all those quotation marks, both single and double. Incidentally, since Zach is reporting actual speech by John, you'll also need a comma to set off the quoted language of John: "John said, 'Amy won,'" said Zach. In British practice, you would write it in a more logical fashion, and you would also reverse the uses of single and double marks: 'John said, "Amy won",' said Zach. Authority: Chicago Manual of Style 14th ed. U of Chicago P: Chicago. 1993.

Question	Hi. What is the difference about meaning between these sentences? Why does the sentence need to add "do" ? I do have the local copy. I have the local copy.
Source & Date of Question	Hong Kong 21 January 1998
Grammar's Response	That's called an emphatic sentence, and if you put the stress on the word do you can hear how the emphasis shifts. The first sentence is simply more emphatic about the fact that I have the copy. (Either sentence is correct, of course, but the first sentence is more emphatic.) In such an "emphatic transformation" of a sentence, we must have an auxiliary, and when there is no auxiliary of the verbs to be or to have, we use what's called the "stand-in auxiliary," do. I'm sorry if that sounds awfully technical, but that's how it works. Authority: A University Grammar of English by Randolph Quirk and Sidney Greenbaum. Longman Group: Essex, England. 1993.

Question	Is there a difference between "if only + clause" and "only if + clause"? I will go if only you go, too. I will go only if you go, too.
Source & Date of Question	Suita, Osaka, Japan 23 January 1998
Grammar's Response	Yes, the placement of the modifier "only" can be critical. In your first sentence, the "only" can modify the "you" of the sentence, meaning that I will go under the condition that you are the only other person to go. In the second sentence, the "only" will clearly modify the "go," meaning that I will go only under the conditions that you you will also go (and it doesn't say anything about other people going.) I can't say that this difference will always hold, but it certainly does in these two sentences.

Question	I would like to know the name of the symbol which indicates a new paragraph is needed. It is most often shown as a sort of backwards "P", but I believe there is a name for it other than "the paragraph symbol." Thank you.
Source & Date of Question	Bloomington, Indiana 23 January 1998
Grammar's Response	All the reference books on my shelf identify this thing as the paragraph symbol. They don't give it a neat name like virgule, or pi, or even Chuck. I've looked in both grammar books and proofreader's manuals and can't come up with another name for you. I'll keep looking and asking, and if I come up with something, you'll be the first to know. Why don't you come up with your own name for it?

Question	Tell me what pronoun,noun,adverb,adjective are?
Source & Date of Question	Wells, Minnesota 23 January 1998
Grammar's Response	Take a look at our page of definitions, and see if that helps. If not, maybe you could get back to me with a more specific question?

Question	Please diagram the Carl Lewis 239-word sentence.
Source & Date of Question	Denver, Colorado 23 January 1998
Grammar's Response	[For those of you unfamilar with the Carl Lewis 239-word sentence, click HERE.] I think I'll wait until I'm ready to retire before I tackle that! If you give it a shot and mail it to me, I'll put it up on the WWW and give you credit for it!

Question	I was just told that when writing a business letter "To Whom It May Concern" is an outdated salutation. Is this correct?
Source & Date of Question	Salt Lake City, Utah 23 January 1998
Grammar's Response	Most of my references seem to steer people toward using an actual name if that is at all possible, and, if not, toward using something like "Dear Accounts Manager" or "Dear Search Committee," although the New York Public Library's guide recommends using "To ___" instead of "Dear." Authority: The St. Martin's Handbook by Andrea Lunsford, Robert Connors. 2nd ed. St. Martin's Press: New York. 1992. Authority: New York Public Library Writer's Guide to Style and Usage HarperCollins: New York. 1994.

Question	Is it quiet or more quiet(quietest or most quiet)? Thank you once again. P.S. Happy New Year!!!
Source & Date of Question	Unknown 23 January 1998
Grammar's Response	We create the comparative and superlative forms of most two- (or more) syllable words by preceding them with more or most. With many two-syllable words, however, we can also form the comparative and superlative by adding -er or -est. With "quiet," you can go either way. "Of these two cars, this is the more quiet/quieter."