The Grammar Logs -- Number Fifty

The
Grammar
Logs
# 50

Question
Could you tell the difference between "meet someone" and "meet with someone" ?
1. Yesterday I met customers.
2. Yesterday I met with customers.

Source & Date
of Question Yokohama, Japan
11 December 1997
Grammar's
Response First of all, CONGRATULATIONS! You have asked the 500th question posed to ASK GRAMMAR! Your prize is a Trip Around the World! Just go ahead and take the trip and when they ask you for the money for the tickets, just tell them Grammar English said you could ride free.
Now, for your question. "To meet someone" is to be introduced to that person -- formally or informally. It can also mean that you have gotten together with someone, as in meeting someone for lunch at your favorite restaurant. In that sense, it can be used interchangeably with "to meet with someone," which usually has a somewhat more formal meaning in the sense that you have held an actual meeting that had its own agenda -- usually, though not always. In its less formal sense, there's not much difference, and you can say "I met Julie for lunch" and "I met with Julie over lunch" and mean practically the same thing; it's just that the second sentence might suggest that you had something to discuss with Julie that required a meeting. I hope this overly long description didn't just confuse you further.

Question
Hi, I have a question about the past perfect tense. My understanding of the past perfect tense is used to describe an action in the past before another action in the past.
Mr. Smith had requested the meeting with Mr. Lee.
So, is the above sentence correct? It only has one action though, but I got it from the newspaper. Thanks.

Source & Date
of Question Unknown
11 December 1997
Grammar's
Response The sentence you quote from the newspaper is correct. The past perfect describes an action that has been completed at some point in the past. Nothing else has to happen in that sentence, if that's what you mean, although I guess it means that something has happened subsequently.

Question
When listing examples in a message, can the list be included within a paragraph? For example:
I have three items to discuss. 1. The first item. 2. The second item. 3. The third item. Then finish the paragraph.
Or must the list be pulled out of the paragraph?
I have three items to discuss.
1. The first item.
2. The second item.
3. The third item.
Then finish the paragraph. Thank you for the help. This is a great resource.
Source & Date
of Question Corvalis, Oregon
12 December 1997
Grammar's
Response
As long as you're consistent, you can devise just about any means you want for creating your lists, whether you want them as run-in lists (built into the flow of your text) or as vertical lists (indented and stacked up). I would suggest using parentheses around the numbers (no periods, though) when using a run-in list:
I have three items to discuss: (1) the first item; (2) the second item; and (3) the third item. I would use semicolons to separate my items, whether they're expressed as fragments or full sentences.
For a vertical list, you may choose whether you want to capitalize the items or not, but don't put punctuation marks at the end of the list items:

I have three items to discuss:
1. The first item
2. The second item
3. The third item
Your choice may depend on how elaborate your lists are and how many of them you have in your text.

Authority: The Longman Handbook for Writers and Readers by Chris M. Anson and Robert A. Schwegler. Addison Wesley Longman, Inc.: New York. 1997.

Question I made a flyer for a poster contest and the poster's subject was to be "Me, Before Birth and After." We had a controversy regarding whether it should be "me" or "I" and ended up changing it to "A Picture of Me." Which is correct, me or I? I know that "It is I" is correct, but where does the subject of the poster contest fit into that, and does that rule apply here?
Thanks! I've actually lost sleep over this.
Source & Date
of Question Milwaukie, Oregon
12 December 1997
Grammar's
Response You can't win in this situation. "I" would sound really awful, but people are going to say that "me" is grammatically incorrect. Actually, I don't think it is incorrect; The poster is really about me, isn't it? Since it is a title, as you point out, just about anything goes. To avoid the argument, you're probably better off with your new title: "Portrait of the Artist as a Fetus" or whatever.
Sleep well.

Question I'd like some help in diagramming this sentence: "Intelligence, Surveillance, and Reconnaissance (ISR) is the capability to collect, process, exploit, and disseminate accurate and timely information that provides the supported commander the battlespace awareness necessary to successfully plan and conduct operations." Does this sentence say "ISR is the capability", or "ISR is information", or "ISR provides awareness". I think it says ISR is information (but I don't remember enough of 8th grade English to diagram it properly. Your help is appreciated.
Source & Date
of Question Montgomery, Alabama
12 December 1997
Grammar's
Response Well, I can tell you what it says; whether the sentence actually makes sense or not is another story. It says that ISR is the capability. "That" is the subject (relative pronoun) of a dependent clause referring to "information," and the verb of that clause is "provides." Good luck diagramming this one!

Question Please give me a reference outlining the correct use of "were" and "was" as in, if the car were a boat, or if the car was a boat.
Thank you.
Source & Date
of Question Smyrna, Tennessee
12 December 1997
Grammar's
Response See our section on the use of the subjunctive mood. You would use the subunctive "were" in this case.
You can find lots of information on the subjunctive mood in just about any writing reference text, but if you need more information, please write again.

Question In the common phrase "Words of Wisdom" is an apostrophe after the 's' in 'Words' permissible, e.g., "Words' of Wisdom"?
Source & Date
of Question Glendale, Arizona
12 December 1997
Grammar's
Response No, an apostrophe after the "s" creates a plural possessive, which wouldn't make any sense there. You want a simple plural -- no apostophe.

Question An associate of mine recently used the article "a" in this context: "a one-time exception". The article was changed to "an", presumably because of the vowel beginning the next word. However, because the word has a consonant sound, i.e. won, I believe the correction erroneous and would have returned to the original article. Please comment.
Source & Date
of Question Washington, D.C.
12 December 1997
Grammar's
Response You're absolutely right. The word "one" begins with a consonantal sound, as you point out. Please see our little section on articles.

Question Would like an explanation as to the difference between using i.e. vs e.g.
Thanks
Source & Date
of Question Washington, D.C.
12 December 1997
Grammar's
Response I think we've got this item covered pretty well in our section on abbreviations (under Latin terms).
If you've still got questions after looking there, please get back to us.

Question What is the term for a word or phrase that is spelled and can be read the same forward and backward (EX: Madam I'm Adam. or MOM)
This is killing us in the office because we can't think of it!!
Source & Date
of Question Mt. Laurel, New Jersey
12 December 1997
Grammar's
Response Palindrome.
I should charge for this stuff.

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Question	Could you tell the difference between "meet someone" and "meet with someone" ? 1. Yesterday I met customers. 2. Yesterday I met with customers.
Source & Date of Question	Yokohama, Japan 11 December 1997
Grammar's Response	First of all, CONGRATULATIONS! You have asked the 500th question posed to ASK GRAMMAR! Your prize is a Trip Around the World! Just go ahead and take the trip and when they ask you for the money for the tickets, just tell them Grammar English said you could ride free. Now, for your question. "To meet someone" is to be introduced to that person -- formally or informally. It can also mean that you have gotten together with someone, as in meeting someone for lunch at your favorite restaurant. In that sense, it can be used interchangeably with "to meet with someone," which usually has a somewhat more formal meaning in the sense that you have held an actual meeting that had its own agenda -- usually, though not always. In its less formal sense, there's not much difference, and you can say "I met Julie for lunch" and "I met with Julie over lunch" and mean practically the same thing; it's just that the second sentence might suggest that you had something to discuss with Julie that required a meeting. I hope this overly long description didn't just confuse you further.

Question	Hi, I have a question about the past perfect tense. My understanding of the past perfect tense is used to describe an action in the past before another action in the past. Mr. Smith had requested the meeting with Mr. Lee. So, is the above sentence correct? It only has one action though, but I got it from the newspaper. Thanks.
Source & Date of Question	Unknown 11 December 1997
Grammar's Response	The sentence you quote from the newspaper is correct. The past perfect describes an action that has been completed at some point in the past. Nothing else has to happen in that sentence, if that's what you mean, although I guess it means that something has happened subsequently.

Question	I made a flyer for a poster contest and the poster's subject was to be "Me, Before Birth and After." We had a controversy regarding whether it should be "me" or "I" and ended up changing it to "A Picture of Me." Which is correct, me or I? I know that "It is I" is correct, but where does the subject of the poster contest fit into that, and does that rule apply here? Thanks! I've actually lost sleep over this.
Source & Date of Question	Milwaukie, Oregon 12 December 1997
Grammar's Response	You can't win in this situation. "I" would sound really awful, but people are going to say that "me" is grammatically incorrect. Actually, I don't think it is incorrect; The poster is really about me, isn't it? Since it is a title, as you point out, just about anything goes. To avoid the argument, you're probably better off with your new title: "Portrait of the Artist as a Fetus" or whatever. Sleep well.

Question	Please give me a reference outlining the correct use of "were" and "was" as in, if the car were a boat, or if the car was a boat. Thank you.
Source & Date of Question	Smyrna, Tennessee 12 December 1997
Grammar's Response	See our section on the use of the subjunctive mood. You would use the subunctive "were" in this case. You can find lots of information on the subjunctive mood in just about any writing reference text, but if you need more information, please write again.

Question	Would like an explanation as to the difference between using i.e. vs e.g. Thanks
Source & Date of Question	Washington, D.C. 12 December 1997
Grammar's Response	I think we've got this item covered pretty well in our section on abbreviations (under Latin terms). If you've still got questions after looking there, please get back to us.

Question	I'd like some help in diagramming this sentence: "Intelligence, Surveillance, and Reconnaissance (ISR) is the capability to collect, process, exploit, and disseminate accurate and timely information that provides the supported commander the battlespace awareness necessary to successfully plan and conduct operations." Does this sentence say "ISR is the capability", or "ISR is information", or "ISR provides awareness". I think it says ISR is information (but I don't remember enough of 8th grade English to diagram it properly. Your help is appreciated.
Source & Date of Question	Montgomery, Alabama 12 December 1997
Grammar's Response	Well, I can tell you what it says; whether the sentence actually makes sense or not is another story. It says that ISR is the capability. "That" is the subject (relative pronoun) of a dependent clause referring to "information," and the verb of that clause is "provides." Good luck diagramming this one!

Question	In the common phrase "Words of Wisdom" is an apostrophe after the 's' in 'Words' permissible, e.g., "Words' of Wisdom"?
Source & Date of Question	Glendale, Arizona 12 December 1997
Grammar's Response	No, an apostrophe after the "s" creates a plural possessive, which wouldn't make any sense there. You want a simple plural -- no apostophe.

Question	An associate of mine recently used the article "a" in this context: "a one-time exception". The article was changed to "an", presumably because of the vowel beginning the next word. However, because the word has a consonant sound, i.e. won, I believe the correction erroneous and would have returned to the original article. Please comment.
Source & Date of Question	Washington, D.C. 12 December 1997
Grammar's Response	You're absolutely right. The word "one" begins with a consonantal sound, as you point out. Please see our little section on articles.

Question	What is the term for a word or phrase that is spelled and can be read the same forward and backward (EX: Madam I'm Adam. or MOM) This is killing us in the office because we can't think of it!!
Source & Date of Question	Mt. Laurel, New Jersey 12 December 1997
Grammar's Response	Palindrome. I should charge for this stuff.