The Grammar Logs -- Number One Hundred, Eighteen

The
Grammar
Logs
# 118

Question I have always been in doubt about the meals in English... Some teachers have taught me that dinner is the informal meal we have at night, at about 7 o'clock. Others, explained that it is a formal occasion, especially when we are invited to have it at somebody's house... I have even heard that it's the meal we have at midday, however I have always called this one lunch! Some people say that we call Supper the ordinary meal we usually have at night, and that dinner is only held at special occasions. And there are people who say that supper is a light meal we have before going to bed, usually later than dinner ! Maybe even on Christmas, as we have our meal at midnight, it's called supper, too! I mean, I am confused...which one should I call dinner, and which can I call supper? Thanks
Source & Date
of Question Goiania/Goias - Brazil
3 May 1998
Grammar's
Response The use of these words will vary from region to region, but usually the word "supper" is an evening meal and "dinner" is the primary meal of the day, regardless of when it is eaten. People can have their dinner, in other words, when you are eating lunch. Supper can also refer to a light meal eaten late in the evening.

Question I'm always in doubt , when i can use FOR and TO, PREPOSITIONS, EITHER and NEITHER too. For foreigners is a little bit complicated. Please i would be gratiful if u could explain me that. Thanks a lot
Source & Date
of Question Salvador, Bahia, Brazil
3 May 1998
Grammar's
Response We have a new section on the correlative conjunctions, either-or, neither-nor, etc.. Click HERE for help with those words. There is also a new section on Prepositions which ought to help with preposition problems, although that is a very big problem for some writers. If you can ask a more specific question or give me an example or two of your problems with these prepositions, maybe I can help more.

Question I am a student in TURKEY. I want to have some exercises about relative clauses, passive voice and reported speech. If you send them, I will be very happy.
Source & Date
of Question Istanbul, Turkey
3 May 1998
Grammar's
Response You might find some exercises on the Quiz List, and if you don't find what you need there, try the hyperlink for ESL students at the bottom of that page.

Question Are there any rules about pronunciation? The most difficult part is for us non-native speakers is how to "say it right"
for example: ginger ale
How would I know if the "I"is pronunced as in pint or as in pin
Thanks.
Source & Date
of Question Limeira, Sao Paulo, Brazil
3 May 1998
Grammar's
Response We haven't gotten into pronunciation in the Guide to Grammar and Writing because, for one thing, it's so difficult to demonstrate sound on the World Wide Web (although we do use sound in some of our spelling quizzes). Perhaps you could find some help with pronunciation guides at Dave's ESL Cafe. In the meantime, pronounce the "i" of ginger ale as you pronounce the "i" in pin.

Question Dear Miss Grammer,
You once explained from Quirk's book how adjectives are stacked up in front of nouns. Can you similarly explain how adverbs are stacked up in front of verb/adjectives? I am confused with the following:

He almost single-handedly managed the situation/ He single- handedly almost managed the situation.
Severe, inoperable vericosed veins/Severely inoperable vericosed veins/Inoperable, severely vericosed veins .
Thanks.
Source & Date
of Question United Arab Emirates
3 May 1998
Grammar's
Response The order of adverbs is somewhat more logical than the order of adjectives. He didn't "almost manage" the situation (what would that mean?). He single-handedly managed it, so that adverb goes next to the verb it modifies. And how did he single-handedly manage it? Well, almost. So that modifier goes before "single-handedly." I think we use the word "varicose" instead of "varicosed," but I think either your first or your third version of that situation would be acceptable. We can't use "severely inoperable," though. What would that mean, to be "severely inoperable"? They are either inoperable or they're not.

Question How do you quote Shakespeare in an MLA-style research paper?
Source & Date
of Question Unknown
3 May 1998
Grammar's
Response Please visit the Principles of Composition section, especially the hyperlinks to Writing Papers about Literature and the Guide to Writing Research Papers. Once you establish which edition you're using, you can simply cite, parenthetically, the name of the play, using an abbreviation (R&J for Romeo and Juliet, for example) and the line numbers you've cited.

Question How do I know when to use a single verb or a plural verb for words such as faculty and data?
Source & Date
of Question Bohemia, New York
3 May 1998
Grammar's
Response Look them up in the dictionary. Faculty is a collective noun, a singular thing made up of many individuals. Data is a bit trickier: it's a plural Latin form, but most writers use it as a singular noun nowadays -- My data is lost.

Question I would like to know how dates are going to be said from the year 2000 on. Are you going to say "twenty ten" for the year 2010?
Source & Date
of Question Oviedo. Asturias. Spain
3 May 1998
Grammar's
Response Sounds good to me. I don't know, and I doubt if anyone does. Perhaps a more interesting question is How do such questions get answered.

Question When quoting from thoughts, does the quoted material get quotation marks?
Example:
It sure is beautiful today, she thought
OR
"It sure is beautiful today," she thought.
I've seen it both ways. Thanks for any help.
Source & Date
of Question Reading, Pennsylvania
4 May 1998
Grammar's
Response Your decision on how to do this is going to be entirely up to you. There are no set rules about it, probably because the answer resides within the realm of creative writing (more so than within the realm of purely expository prose). I think you need to find an author who does a lot of the kind of interior thinking you have in mind and copy that person. (Try Graham Swift in Last Orders.)

Question The sentence in question: AT&T and MCI are also huge customers of one another's by virtue of their reciprocal purchases.
First, I believe "each other" instead of "one another" is correct to use, because we are referring to only two companies. But more importantly, it is the apostrophe s that puzzles me. I need a rule to delete it or understand why it is correct. (Shouldn't it be: AT&T and MCI are also huge customers of each other by virtue of their reciprocal purchases.")
Similarly, (next sentence in question): Sprint's gateways are in the U.S., whereas its partners have strong international presences, notably AT&T's in Latin America and MCI's in East Asia. Again, I am not certain the apostrophe s is needed after AT&T and MCI. Please, what rule are we referring to here?
Thank you.
Source & Date
of Question Garden City, New York
4 May 1998
Grammar's
Response You don't need the apostrophe -s in that first sentence because you create the possessive with the "of phrase." And your instincts are right about using "each other" instead of "one another." Wouldn't the text be better off with something like "Both MCI and AT&T profit greatly from their reciprocal purchase arrangements."? I suppose the writer of the next sentence meant to say something about AT&T's presence and MCI's presence in East Asia. Again, though, a re-write would make it easier to take, especially if we can get rid of that clumsy "presences": "Sprint's gateways are in the U.S., whereas both of its partners -- AT&T and MCI -- have a strong international presence in East Asia." If I have mis-read the sentence in my "translation" of it, that's probably a good sign that the sentence is in trouble.

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Question	Are there any rules about pronunciation? The most difficult part is for us non-native speakers is how to "say it right" for example: ginger ale How would I know if the "I"is pronunced as in pint or as in pin Thanks.
Source & Date of Question	Limeira, Sao Paulo, Brazil 3 May 1998
Grammar's Response	We haven't gotten into pronunciation in the Guide to Grammar and Writing because, for one thing, it's so difficult to demonstrate sound on the World Wide Web (although we do use sound in some of our spelling quizzes). Perhaps you could find some help with pronunciation guides at Dave's ESL Cafe. In the meantime, pronounce the "i" of ginger ale as you pronounce the "i" in pin.

Question	Dear Miss Grammer, You once explained from Quirk's book how adjectives are stacked up in front of nouns. Can you similarly explain how adverbs are stacked up in front of verb/adjectives? I am confused with the following: He almost single-handedly managed the situation/ He single- handedly almost managed the situation. Severe, inoperable vericosed veins/Severely inoperable vericosed veins/Inoperable, severely vericosed veins . Thanks.
Source & Date of Question	United Arab Emirates 3 May 1998
Grammar's Response	The order of adverbs is somewhat more logical than the order of adjectives. He didn't "almost manage" the situation (what would that mean?). He single-handedly managed it, so that adverb goes next to the verb it modifies. And how did he single-handedly manage it? Well, almost. So that modifier goes before "single-handedly." I think we use the word "varicose" instead of "varicosed," but I think either your first or your third version of that situation would be acceptable. We can't use "severely inoperable," though. What would that mean, to be "severely inoperable"? They are either inoperable or they're not.

Question	When quoting from thoughts, does the quoted material get quotation marks? Example: It sure is beautiful today, she thought OR "It sure is beautiful today," she thought. I've seen it both ways. Thanks for any help.
Source & Date of Question	Reading, Pennsylvania 4 May 1998
Grammar's Response	Your decision on how to do this is going to be entirely up to you. There are no set rules about it, probably because the answer resides within the realm of creative writing (more so than within the realm of purely expository prose). I think you need to find an author who does a lot of the kind of interior thinking you have in mind and copy that person. (Try Graham Swift in Last Orders.)

Question	The sentence in question: AT&T and MCI are also huge customers of one another's by virtue of their reciprocal purchases. First, I believe "each other" instead of "one another" is correct to use, because we are referring to only two companies. But more importantly, it is the apostrophe s that puzzles me. I need a rule to delete it or understand why it is correct. (Shouldn't it be: AT&T and MCI are also huge customers of each other by virtue of their reciprocal purchases.") Similarly, (next sentence in question): Sprint's gateways are in the U.S., whereas its partners have strong international presences, notably AT&T's in Latin America and MCI's in East Asia. Again, I am not certain the apostrophe s is needed after AT&T and MCI. Please, what rule are we referring to here? Thank you.
Source & Date of Question	Garden City, New York 4 May 1998
Grammar's Response	You don't need the apostrophe -s in that first sentence because you create the possessive with the "of phrase." And your instincts are right about using "each other" instead of "one another." Wouldn't the text be better off with something like "Both MCI and AT&T profit greatly from their reciprocal purchase arrangements."? I suppose the writer of the next sentence meant to say something about AT&T's presence and MCI's presence in East Asia. Again, though, a re-write would make it easier to take, especially if we can get rid of that clumsy "presences": "Sprint's gateways are in the U.S., whereas both of its partners -- AT&T and MCI -- have a strong international presence in East Asia." If I have mis-read the sentence in my "translation" of it, that's probably a good sign that the sentence is in trouble.

Question	I have always been in doubt about the meals in English... Some teachers have taught me that dinner is the informal meal we have at night, at about 7 o'clock. Others, explained that it is a formal occasion, especially when we are invited to have it at somebody's house... I have even heard that it's the meal we have at midday, however I have always called this one lunch! Some people say that we call Supper the ordinary meal we usually have at night, and that dinner is only held at special occasions. And there are people who say that supper is a light meal we have before going to bed, usually later than dinner ! Maybe even on Christmas, as we have our meal at midnight, it's called supper, too! I mean, I am confused...which one should I call dinner, and which can I call supper? Thanks
Source & Date of Question	Goiania/Goias - Brazil 3 May 1998
Grammar's Response	The use of these words will vary from region to region, but usually the word "supper" is an evening meal and "dinner" is the primary meal of the day, regardless of when it is eaten. People can have their dinner, in other words, when you are eating lunch. Supper can also refer to a light meal eaten late in the evening.

Question	I'm always in doubt , when i can use FOR and TO, PREPOSITIONS, EITHER and NEITHER too. For foreigners is a little bit complicated. Please i would be gratiful if u could explain me that. Thanks a lot
Source & Date of Question	Salvador, Bahia, Brazil 3 May 1998
Grammar's Response	We have a new section on the correlative conjunctions, either-or, neither-nor, etc.. Click HERE for help with those words. There is also a new section on Prepositions which ought to help with preposition problems, although that is a very big problem for some writers. If you can ask a more specific question or give me an example or two of your problems with these prepositions, maybe I can help more.

Question	I am a student in TURKEY. I want to have some exercises about relative clauses, passive voice and reported speech. If you send them, I will be very happy.
Source & Date of Question	Istanbul, Turkey 3 May 1998
Grammar's Response	You might find some exercises on the Quiz List, and if you don't find what you need there, try the hyperlink for ESL students at the bottom of that page.

Question	How do you quote Shakespeare in an MLA-style research paper?
Source & Date of Question	Unknown 3 May 1998
Grammar's Response	Please visit the Principles of Composition section, especially the hyperlinks to Writing Papers about Literature and the Guide to Writing Research Papers. Once you establish which edition you're using, you can simply cite, parenthetically, the name of the play, using an abbreviation (R&J for Romeo and Juliet, for example) and the line numbers you've cited.

Question	How do I know when to use a single verb or a plural verb for words such as faculty and data?
Source & Date of Question	Bohemia, New York 3 May 1998
Grammar's Response	Look them up in the dictionary. Faculty is a collective noun, a singular thing made up of many individuals. Data is a bit trickier: it's a plural Latin form, but most writers use it as a singular noun nowadays -- My data is lost.

Question	I would like to know how dates are going to be said from the year 2000 on. Are you going to say "twenty ten" for the year 2010?
Source & Date of Question	Oviedo. Asturias. Spain 3 May 1998
Grammar's Response	Sounds good to me. I don't know, and I doubt if anyone does. Perhaps a more interesting question is How do such questions get answered.