The Grammar Logs -- Number One Hundred, Sixteen

The
Grammar
Logs
# 116

Question Should we use:
Drunk driving, or
Drunken driving, or
Drink driving.
to describe an incident in which the driver was drunken? I've seen three of them used in the newspaper headlines.
Source & Date
of Question Calgary, AB, Canada
30 April 1998
Grammar's
Response Either "drunk driving" or "drunken driving" works for me, but "drink driving" doesn't make much sense to me. Of the three, "drunken," as an adjectival form, makes the most sense, and that's what the Oxford American Dictionary prefers, saying that "drunken" should be used before nouns (drunken brawl, etc.) and that "drunk" should be used as a verb form (He is drunk).

Question Would it be possible for you to provide me with a definition for, and an example of, a postpositive construction? I have found its definition in a number of places, but it's always defined too simply as an "adjective", and I have yet to see an example of it.
If you could oblige, I would appreciate it.
Thank you.
Source & Date
of Question Hamilton, New Jersey
30 April 1998
Grammar's
Response Postpositives are adjectives, and you've seen examples of them all the time, you just never knew it! Any time you modify a word ending in -ing, -body, or -one, you're creating a postpositive (a situation in which the adjective follows the word modified):
I've never seen anyone taller than he.
Is there somebody more important in this office?
Something critical is happening.
A handful of adjectives nearly always end up postpositive:
Hartford proper
president elect
the issues involved
the officers concerned
Authority: A University Grammar of English by Randolph Quirk and Sidney Greenbaum. Longman Group: Essex, England. 1993. Used with permission.

Question What is a stacked noun? I am would like to know about modifiers in regards to stacked nouns what they are and how to fix them. At this time I have been unable to find an actual definition or example of this and would appreciate it .
Source & Date
of Question Seattle, Washington
30 April 1998
Grammar's
Response This isn't a trick question, is it? Aside from some bad jokes that would only get me in trouble, I have absolutely no idea what a "stacked noun" could be. It's not listed in any of my reference books. I will post your question here along with my confession of ignorance, and maybe somebody will tell us what it's all about.
David A Eason thinks you might mean a "packed noun phrase," a concept described in Joseph M. Williams's Style: Ten Lessons in Clarity and Grace. Click HERE for Eason's explanation.

Question While using others in the plural, where do I put the apostrophe?
ex: Training assists both mentors and proteges in establishing their expectations, relationships, and in understanding each OTHER'S (OR OTHERS') environments.
Thanks!
Great site -- very useful, I've bookmarked it.
Source & Date
of Question San Jose, California
30 April 1998
Grammar's
Response The "each" in this construction makes the "other" singular, so you want "other's." By the way, can you make this sentence more Parallel with something like "their expectations, their relationships, and their understanding of each other's environments."?

Question Is there any a case where a period would go outside quotes as in "quote". ?
Source & Date
of Question Berkeley, California
30 April 1998
Grammar's
Response Now that you put it that way, it sounds like a challenge to come up with one. But in the U.S., where typing convention puts the comma and period inside the quotation mark, regardless of logic, I can't think of any such case. I suppose if I were quoting some British writer -- Joseph Conrad, say -- and needed to recreate his language, I would end up doing so. "It also happens in citations" (Greenlee, 137). [like that]

Question First of all, I have bookmarked this site...what a great reference tool!
I am looking to further exercise my writing skills and would like to begin a journal (daily writing), but through my computer. Do you know of any software programs that include an "electronic" journal?
I know this is a long shot, but if you have any suggestions, I would love to know...thank you.
Source & Date
of Question Hackensack, New Jersey
30 April 1998
Grammar's
Response I think that the e-mail client for Office 97 contains such an item, along with a task calendar, reminder functions, etc. And there are surely others less expensive. Do you live near a mall with one of those software boutiques? They would surely have something like that, and for not very much money. Or visit one of the software dens online -- www.software.com, for one.

Question Nominalization is the term for a perfectly useful verb converted to a noun (e.g., The operation of the plant is the responsibility of the manager, instead of the manager is responsible for operating the plant.)
What is the term for a perfectly useful noun or adjective converted to a verb? (e.g., icon to iconify, as in this sentence: He is just a normal man, so don't iconify him by putting him on a pedestal.)
Thank you
Source & Date
of Question Littleton, Colorado
30 April 1998
Grammar's
Response I don't know. Let's call it verbalization! I'll post my second confession of ignorance in one day and see if someone else can suggest the real answer. There are probably many situations in which the issue of what came first, the verb or the adjective, the noun or the verb, is a chicken-and-egg thing.

Question Spacing! For instance, after the colon, in a sentence containing quotation marks (dialogue), etc.
I use your Grammar Page constantly. It is a wonderful site and has been a wonderful help to me! Thank you!
Source & Date
of Question Addison, New York
30 April 1998
Grammar's
Response Use one space after the colon -- especially with word-processing devices.

Question What is the correct punctuation when writing a story and the character is expressing silent thoughts?
Source & Date
of Question Scottsdale, Arizona
30 April 1998
Grammar's
Response That's probably going to depend on how much silent thinking the character is doing. You can do it with quotation marks, if you want, or you can use italics (but I wouldn't use italics if there is a lot of this going on). Some writers try indenting it or even using different font styles. The best advice is to find some author whom you like who does a lot of this and copy what you see him or her doing. Try Graham Swift's latest novel Last Orders. Nobody does it better.

Question What are the rules with bullet points in a presentation? When do/don't they have a period.
Source & Date
of Question Unknown
30 April 1998
Grammar's
Response I assume you're talking about the possibility of a period at the end of each item, right? If one or more of the items in your list is a complete sentence, you can end the items (all of them) with a period; otherwise, with a vertical bulleted list, don't use any end marks.

Previous Grammar Log
Next Grammar Log
Index of Grammar Logs
Guide to Grammar and Writing

Question	Should we use: Drunk driving, or Drunken driving, or Drink driving. to describe an incident in which the driver was drunken? I've seen three of them used in the newspaper headlines.
Source & Date of Question	Calgary, AB, Canada 30 April 1998
Grammar's Response	Either "drunk driving" or "drunken driving" works for me, but "drink driving" doesn't make much sense to me. Of the three, "drunken," as an adjectival form, makes the most sense, and that's what the Oxford American Dictionary prefers, saying that "drunken" should be used before nouns (drunken brawl, etc.) and that "drunk" should be used as a verb form (He is drunk).

Question	What is a stacked noun? I am would like to know about modifiers in regards to stacked nouns what they are and how to fix them. At this time I have been unable to find an actual definition or example of this and would appreciate it .
Source & Date of Question	Seattle, Washington 30 April 1998
Grammar's Response	This isn't a trick question, is it? Aside from some bad jokes that would only get me in trouble, I have absolutely no idea what a "stacked noun" could be. It's not listed in any of my reference books. I will post your question here along with my confession of ignorance, and maybe somebody will tell us what it's all about. David A Eason thinks you might mean a "packed noun phrase," a concept described in Joseph M. Williams's Style: Ten Lessons in Clarity and Grace. Click HERE for Eason's explanation.

Question	While using others in the plural, where do I put the apostrophe? ex: Training assists both mentors and proteges in establishing their expectations, relationships, and in understanding each OTHER'S (OR OTHERS') environments. Thanks! Great site -- very useful, I've bookmarked it.
Source & Date of Question	San Jose, California 30 April 1998
Grammar's Response	The "each" in this construction makes the "other" singular, so you want "other's." By the way, can you make this sentence more Parallel with something like "their expectations, their relationships, and their understanding of each other's environments."?

Question	First of all, I have bookmarked this site...what a great reference tool! I am looking to further exercise my writing skills and would like to begin a journal (daily writing), but through my computer. Do you know of any software programs that include an "electronic" journal? I know this is a long shot, but if you have any suggestions, I would love to know...thank you.
Source & Date of Question	Hackensack, New Jersey 30 April 1998
Grammar's Response	I think that the e-mail client for Office 97 contains such an item, along with a task calendar, reminder functions, etc. And there are surely others less expensive. Do you live near a mall with one of those software boutiques? They would surely have something like that, and for not very much money. Or visit one of the software dens online -- www.software.com, for one.

Question	Nominalization is the term for a perfectly useful verb converted to a noun (e.g., The operation of the plant is the responsibility of the manager, instead of the manager is responsible for operating the plant.) What is the term for a perfectly useful noun or adjective converted to a verb? (e.g., icon to iconify, as in this sentence: He is just a normal man, so don't iconify him by putting him on a pedestal.) Thank you
Source & Date of Question	Littleton, Colorado 30 April 1998
Grammar's Response	I don't know. Let's call it verbalization! I'll post my second confession of ignorance in one day and see if someone else can suggest the real answer. There are probably many situations in which the issue of what came first, the verb or the adjective, the noun or the verb, is a chicken-and-egg thing.

Question	Is there any a case where a period would go outside quotes as in "quote". ?
Source & Date of Question	Berkeley, California 30 April 1998
Grammar's Response	Now that you put it that way, it sounds like a challenge to come up with one. But in the U.S., where typing convention puts the comma and period inside the quotation mark, regardless of logic, I can't think of any such case. I suppose if I were quoting some British writer -- Joseph Conrad, say -- and needed to recreate his language, I would end up doing so. "It also happens in citations" (Greenlee, 137). [like that]

Question	Spacing! For instance, after the colon, in a sentence containing quotation marks (dialogue), etc. I use your Grammar Page constantly. It is a wonderful site and has been a wonderful help to me! Thank you!
Source & Date of Question	Addison, New York 30 April 1998
Grammar's Response	Use one space after the colon -- especially with word-processing devices.

Question	What is the correct punctuation when writing a story and the character is expressing silent thoughts?
Source & Date of Question	Scottsdale, Arizona 30 April 1998
Grammar's Response	That's probably going to depend on how much silent thinking the character is doing. You can do it with quotation marks, if you want, or you can use italics (but I wouldn't use italics if there is a lot of this going on). Some writers try indenting it or even using different font styles. The best advice is to find some author whom you like who does a lot of this and copy what you see him or her doing. Try Graham Swift's latest novel Last Orders. Nobody does it better.

Question	What are the rules with bullet points in a presentation? When do/don't they have a period.
Source & Date of Question	Unknown 30 April 1998
Grammar's Response	I assume you're talking about the possibility of a period at the end of each item, right? If one or more of the items in your list is a complete sentence, you can end the items (all of them) with a period; otherwise, with a vertical bulleted list, don't use any end marks.