The Grammar Logs -- Number One Hundred

The
Grammar
Logs
# 100

Question When listing names with titles at the end of the name by last name first, where does the title go?
Which is correct? If neither, what is the correct way to list the name?

Smith Jr., John J.
Smith, John J., Jr.
Smith, John J. Jr.
Smith, John J. Sr.
Smith Sr., John J.
Smith, John J., Sr.

Source & Date
of Question Dallas, Texas
9 April 1998
Grammar's
Response CONGRATULATIONS! You have asked the 1000th question to ASK GRAMMAR! Your Prize is that stainless steel arch in St. Louis, but if you want it, you have to pick it up this weekend and move it to your house, or the deal is off.
According to the Chicago Style Manual, which devotes a lot of space to this kind of thing, a suffix like "Sr." is retained when the name is inverted for indexing but is placed after the given name following a comma:
Roosevelt, Theodore, Jr.
Stevenson, Adlai E., III
Moffett, Mrs. James, Sr.
Authority: Chicago Manual of Style 14th ed. U of Chicago P: Chicago. 1993. 735.

Question I sometimes heard people say:
He sat on the sofa, or Hw sat in the sofa.
Which one is correct?
Source & Date
of Question Hong Kong
9 April 1998
Grammar's
Response You might try our new section on prepositions if they're giving you trouble. He sat on the sofa. We can lie in bed, and you can sit in a large, comfortable chair. Oddly, though, you can't sit in a couch, no matter how comfortable it is.

Question We know to write "give me a history lesson", but do we not in "It was an historical day". What is the ruling? The Oxford dictionary hints that "an" is being used less and less with aspirate "H" words.
thanks
Source & Date
of Question Ottowa, Canada
9 April 1998
Grammar's
Response I think a word or two got cut out of your message, but I think I get the point. You're probably right: I would bet that most people say, "an historical day," "an hysterical laughter." There's probably less of that aspirate "h" sound in those words than you hear in "history" or "horse." They're closer to the initial vowel sound. Thus it is that language changes. This varies, also, according to which side of the Atlantic you're on, I've been told.

Question Dear Sir,
I am a little bit confused about some of the usage of comparison in English. My main questions are listed below:

the usage of "the same.. as" or "the same as": Which is correct: 'He is the same as I' or 'He is the same as me'. 'He uses the same book as I (do)' or 'He uses the same book as mine'. Here I am also not very clear about the omission like 'I (do)'. Sometimes the omission is permitted, but sometimes it is not. I want to know the rule.
Which is correct: 'He is taller than I (am)' or 'He is taller than me'. 'He hates him as much as I (do) or ' He hates him as much as (he hates) me'. Thank you for your help!

Source & Date
of Question Chengdu, Sichuna Province, China
10 April 1998
Grammar's
Response We use "as" to introduce clauses (containing a subject and verb), except that sometimes the verb is left out. Some writers will argue that the word "as" can be used as the preposition "like," and they will write "He's as tall as me," but that's still, definitely, a minority position. (The same is true of the word "than," which mention later.) So we would write "He uses the same book as I do." I'm not aware of any rule about omission, but I can tell you it sounds clumsy with a pronoun left out there at the end of the sentence, but not so bad with a noun: "He uses the same book as his brother [does]." Both of your "hate sentences" are correct (although I added an "s -ending" to your verbs).

Question What is the polite forms in English language ?
Source & Date
of Question Bucharest, Romania
10 April 1998
Grammar's
Response English doesn't have the same kind of distinction of politeness in its pronouns as other languages might have: German's Sie/du and French's Vous/du. It used to, with forms of "thou" and "thee," but those are used only in some dialects now. The only consideration of politeness that I'm aware of is that in English we usually put another person in front of the first person singular pronoun: "My brother and I are leaving" instead of "I and my brother are leaving" and "She gave the money to my brother and me." Other than that, it's largely a matter of tone.

Question Way to develop professional writing skills?
Source & Date
of Question Sri Lanka
10 April 1998
Grammar's
Response I'm not sure what you mean by professional writing skills: technical writing? business writing? fiction writing? journalism? And I'm not sure at what level you're beginning. It's largely a matter of practice, of course, and a "gift" if you're talking about the more creative modes of writing. Also, I'm not sure what's available to you in terms of educational opportunities. You might begin by exploring opportunities (often very poorly paid at the start) in some kind of journalistic enterprise.

Question I would like your opinion on the best technical or specialist dictionaries to assist in Spanish/English/Spanish translations and your giving me the corresponding URL's.
Many thanks!
Source & Date
of Question Santa BrÌgida, Las Palmas, Spain
10 April 1998
Grammar's
Response I assume you're asking about resources on the internet. I don't know where the best resources are, but the best place to start looking, as far as I know, is Travlang.

Question Dear Grammar,
Could you please tell me when I should use "-ing" or "-ed" form in English? More specifically, what is the difference between "a nice-smelling flower" and "a beautifully-decorated garden" ? How do I know that I should add "ing" after "smell" and not an "ed" after it? Would you please help me solve this problem?
Thanks!
Source & Date
of Question Taiwan
13 April 1998
Grammar's
Response Both of those verb forms you draw our attention to are participles. The differences is that the "-ed" form indicates that something was done to something (to make it "decorated," in this case) and the "-ing" indicates that it does something (it smells nice, in this case). It's a matter of how the characteristic you're describing is attached to the object: if it's applied, somehow, to it, then you'll use "-ed"; if it's inherent to it, then you'll use "-ing." Try that and see if it helps you.

Question Is there a comma between the state and zip code in an writren address?
For example: 205 Westwood Drive, Camdenton, MO 65020
or
205 Westwood Drive, Camdenton, MO, 65020

Source & Date
of Question Camdenton, Missouri
13 April 1998
Grammar's
Response Nope, no comma between the state and the zip code. In fact, I read somewhere that the post office now prefers (for machines of machine-legibility) that you not put a comma between the city and state, but I have not seen that confirmed anywhere yet.

Question Is it still incorrect to use "that" when referring to a person or people? For example, "We should learn to trust doctors that seem to have our best interests at heart." Or, "People that go to my school..."
Should who or whom always be used when referring to people?
Thank you.
Source & Date
of Question Lakewood, Washington
13 April 1998
Grammar's
Response I always try to use who or whom when referring to people, but many good writers will use "that" to refer to a group of people (not an individual) in a general kind of way (the way you did). The more specific is your reference, the more you should lean toward using "who": "Harvard graduates who go on to law school . . . ."
Authority: New York Public Library Writer's Guide to Style and Usage HarperCollins: New York. 1994. 140.

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Question	I sometimes heard people say: He sat on the sofa, or Hw sat in the sofa. Which one is correct?
Source & Date of Question	Hong Kong 9 April 1998
Grammar's Response	You might try our new section on prepositions if they're giving you trouble. He sat on the sofa. We can lie in bed, and you can sit in a large, comfortable chair. Oddly, though, you can't sit in a couch, no matter how comfortable it is.

Question	We know to write "give me a history lesson", but do we not in "It was an historical day". What is the ruling? The Oxford dictionary hints that "an" is being used less and less with aspirate "H" words. thanks
Source & Date of Question	Ottowa, Canada 9 April 1998
Grammar's Response	I think a word or two got cut out of your message, but I think I get the point. You're probably right: I would bet that most people say, "an historical day," "an hysterical laughter." There's probably less of that aspirate "h" sound in those words than you hear in "history" or "horse." They're closer to the initial vowel sound. Thus it is that language changes. This varies, also, according to which side of the Atlantic you're on, I've been told.

Question	Dear Sir, I am a little bit confused about some of the usage of comparison in English. My main questions are listed below: the usage of "the same.. as" or "the same as": Which is correct: 'He is the same as I' or 'He is the same as me'. 'He uses the same book as I (do)' or 'He uses the same book as mine'. Here I am also not very clear about the omission like 'I (do)'. Sometimes the omission is permitted, but sometimes it is not. I want to know the rule. Which is correct: 'He is taller than I (am)' or 'He is taller than me'. 'He hates him as much as I (do) or ' He hates him as much as (he hates) me'. Thank you for your help!
Source & Date of Question	Chengdu, Sichuna Province, China 10 April 1998
Grammar's Response	We use "as" to introduce clauses (containing a subject and verb), except that sometimes the verb is left out. Some writers will argue that the word "as" can be used as the preposition "like," and they will write "He's as tall as me," but that's still, definitely, a minority position. (The same is true of the word "than," which mention later.) So we would write "He uses the same book as I do." I'm not aware of any rule about omission, but I can tell you it sounds clumsy with a pronoun left out there at the end of the sentence, but not so bad with a noun: "He uses the same book as his brother [does]." Both of your "hate sentences" are correct (although I added an "s -ending" to your verbs).

Question	I would like your opinion on the best technical or specialist dictionaries to assist in Spanish/English/Spanish translations and your giving me the corresponding URL's. Many thanks!
Source & Date of Question	Santa BrÌgida, Las Palmas, Spain 10 April 1998
Grammar's Response	I assume you're asking about resources on the internet. I don't know where the best resources are, but the best place to start looking, as far as I know, is Travlang.

Question	Dear Grammar, Could you please tell me when I should use "-ing" or "-ed" form in English? More specifically, what is the difference between "a nice-smelling flower" and "a beautifully-decorated garden" ? How do I know that I should add "ing" after "smell" and not an "ed" after it? Would you please help me solve this problem? Thanks!
Source & Date of Question	Taiwan 13 April 1998
Grammar's Response	Both of those verb forms you draw our attention to are participles. The differences is that the "-ed" form indicates that something was done to something (to make it "decorated," in this case) and the "-ing" indicates that it does something (it smells nice, in this case). It's a matter of how the characteristic you're describing is attached to the object: if it's applied, somehow, to it, then you'll use "-ed"; if it's inherent to it, then you'll use "-ing." Try that and see if it helps you.

Question	What is the polite forms in English language ?
Source & Date of Question	Bucharest, Romania 10 April 1998
Grammar's Response	English doesn't have the same kind of distinction of politeness in its pronouns as other languages might have: German's Sie/du and French's Vous/du. It used to, with forms of "thou" and "thee," but those are used only in some dialects now. The only consideration of politeness that I'm aware of is that in English we usually put another person in front of the first person singular pronoun: "My brother and I are leaving" instead of "I and my brother are leaving" and "She gave the money to my brother and me." Other than that, it's largely a matter of tone.

Question	Way to develop professional writing skills?
Source & Date of Question	Sri Lanka 10 April 1998
Grammar's Response	I'm not sure what you mean by professional writing skills: technical writing? business writing? fiction writing? journalism? And I'm not sure at what level you're beginning. It's largely a matter of practice, of course, and a "gift" if you're talking about the more creative modes of writing. Also, I'm not sure what's available to you in terms of educational opportunities. You might begin by exploring opportunities (often very poorly paid at the start) in some kind of journalistic enterprise.

Question	Is there a comma between the state and zip code in an writren address? For example: 205 Westwood Drive, Camdenton, MO 65020 or 205 Westwood Drive, Camdenton, MO, 65020
Source & Date of Question	Camdenton, Missouri 13 April 1998
Grammar's Response	Nope, no comma between the state and the zip code. In fact, I read somewhere that the post office now prefers (for machines of machine-legibility) that you not put a comma between the city and state, but I have not seen that confirmed anywhere yet.